SOUL SURMISE

Johnny Cash - Script from Ikon event, celebrating the life and works of Johnny Cash

(found this in my old defunct web page and felt that it was a timeless tribute, not to be lost)

Johnny Cash is the time line of rock ‘n roll. He was there with Elvis Presley and Sam Phillips in Sun Records in 1955 when that which we all could never have lived without was born. He died covering the songs of the best writers of the late twentieth and early twenty first century. This week Q issued their Best 1001 Songs ever magazine and the number 1 song was U2’s One; so aptly named! Tonight I will start my radio show with the best song ever but it will not be the U2 version. It will be Johnny Cash’s version from his American Recordings Volume 3. It was these four albums produced by Rick Rubin that brought Cash back to the very top of the tree. His video for the Trent Reznor song Hurt is the most talked about video in decades. Trent Reznor for goodness sake! What other seventy year old could do Nine Inch Nails? Only someone who was hip with Elvis and still just as cool 50 years later!

But that is not why we have gathered to remember Johnny Cash tonight. This is a spiritual event. Why would we be spending an evening with Johnny Cash?

Well he was powerful in middle finger gestures but never as potent as when he made the sign of the cross. He took the nice out of Jesus and removed the blue eyes and perfectly groomed blonde hair while at the same time told evil to go to hell and stared the devil eyeball to eyeball. He gave Jesus back his masculinity and gave the devil his due disrespect. With Johnny Cash we never got to only see the pretty coastline, we got the quarry ravaged interior, the smoke stacked poisonous reek of all our ills. We also got to see that house in the midst of the darkness that always had a candle in the window and a fire in the hearth. All the complexities of humanity were there rolled into one.

It has always been a tricky thing after Christian conversion to hold to truth and grace with humility and em…well…grace! Integrity often gives way to pretension; admission of guilt to arrogance! Cash somehow held together the tension. He never allowed the confession of his fallen state to be used as an cheap excuse for an anything-goes-this-is-just-how-I-am slackness. Nor did he allow himself to be so righteous that he separated himself from the marginalized that populated his songs or set himself apart from anyone who was drawn by the candle or needed warmed at the hearth. There was no pseudo self righteousness that he wasn’t like the Church. There was no religious self righteousness that he wasn’t like the world. Tonight we look for inspiration in a life that mirrors something of us all, all of the time.

Johnny Cash exposed traces of humanity’s fall in the Garden of Eden and Christ’s blood dripping from Calvary’s wooden cross. He was judgement and grace. He was the sinner and the redeemed. He was the perfect/imperfect balance of a human being. God bless him!

Richie Furay - The Rhythms of Redemption Interview

 

The man in whom a Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame member and a pastor of a Calvary Chapel meet. As a minister and fan of music in general and Richie Furay's many musical incarnations in particular, the following is the most interesting interview I have ever done and an honour of my life...

Richie Furay is a rock ‘n roll legend. His name is written all over the history of the genre and in 1997 he was inducted into the Rock ‘N Roll Hall Of Fame. Along with Neil Young and Stephen Stills he formed Buffalo Springfield a ground breaking band in the late 60s who sadly imploded on take off, just two albums in. While Young went on to an enigmatic and eclectic solo career that has him still cutting it thirty five years later, Still formed Crosby, Stills and Nash who were the biggest American act in the early 70s, Furay formed Poco who were forerunners to the much more commercially successful Eagles who nicked many Poco members throughout the 70s.

Poco actually asked Gram Parsons to join them at one stage and were for sure a solid foundation stone in the whole new country thing that Parsons became the figure head for and that the Eagles would so readily exploit. Furay’s disappointment at their commercial success may have been the cause of his leaving to form The Souther Hillman Fury Band an attempt to duplicate the supergroup success that Crosby Stills and Nash had had. Two albums in and Furay was bandless again but in the latter years of the 70s released three solo albums on west coast rock’s community label Asylum of which special mention must go to I’ve Got A Reason, a consummate piece of work which saw Furay at the helm of his destiny for the very first time in his career.

I’ve Got A Reason (recently made available on CD for the first time along with I Still Have Dreams and Dance A Little Light) also revealed Furay’s new found spiritual interest, having found Jesus as a reason through his friendship with the legendary pedal steel player Al Perkins. That new found faith would eventually lead Furay to where he is today – pastor of Calvary Chapel in Boulder, Colorado. Not that he has left the music behind as some Satanic thing from his past. He rejoined Poco for the Reunion album in 1990 and still dabbles and jams when some of his old friends come to town. He has also released a praise and worship album which has all the hallmarks of his Poco days, great playing, beautiful harmonies and a country rock sensibility, giving hymn writing a whole new slant. Pioneering again!

It should be noted too, that I’ve Got A Reason was a pioneering piece of work too. There were not many Christian artists in the mid 70s who were able to make albums for the general marketplace that had spirituality so naturally woven in to songs about life and humanity; cringe free Christian art!

In one of the honours of my life and the biggest scoop in the short history of Rhythms Of Redemption I got a chance to throw a few questions across cyberspace to Richie Furay. He answered openly and at length about the music that looms so large in his legend and also about the side of this life’s calling that commercial success can never damage or taint; his faith and ministry. It is an intriguing interview.

Q) - You are all over the history of rock n roll. How does that feel?

A) - WHEN I LEFT MY LITTLE HOME TOWN IN OHIO TO GO TO NYC TO BE A FOLK SINGER I HAD NO IDEA WHERE THINGS WOULD LEAD. MY ONLY ASPIRATION WAS TO MAKE SOME MUSIC AND HAVE FUN DOING IT. I HAD TWO GOOD FRIENDS FROM COLLEGE WHO WENT ALONG WITH ME FOR A WHILE, BUT THEN DECISION TIME CAME AND WE HAD TO DECIDE WHETHER TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL OR GO ON WITH THE DREAM. I CHOSE TO STAY ON AND FROM THERE I NEVER LOOKED BACK. I WAS VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE BEEN APART OF TWO, MAYBE THREE EXCEPTIONALLY TALENTED GROUPS. CERTAINLY THE BUFFALO SPRINGFIELD AND POCO HAVE HAVE LEFT A MARK PIONEERING FOLK ROCK AND COUNTRY ROCK. WHETHER POCO WILL EVER BE ACKNOWLEDGED FOR THEIR CONTRIBUTION IS YET TO BE SEEN, BUT IN MY HEART I KNOW WHAT WE DID IN OPENING THE DOORS FOR WHAT HAS BECOME DEFINITIVE AMERICAN MUSIC.

Q) - I see the solo albums have been made available again. What do you feel about that?

A) - I'M VERY PROUD OF THOSE ALBUMS AND WAS HAPPY WHEN THEY BECAME AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL MARKET. I KNOW THE FIRST TIME AROUND THERE WASN'T MUCH SUPPORT FROM THE RECORD COMPANY AND THE ALBUMS WENT UNHEARD OF FOR THE MOST PART. EACH ONE HAS A SPECIAL PLACE IN MY HEART AND REALLY GAVE ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLORE THE MUSIC WITHIN. I'M SURE THE RECORD COMPANY WAS A LITTLE APPREHENSIVE ABOUT HOW FAR TO GO IN THEIR SUPPORT BECAUSE OF MY OPEN CONFESSION OF FAITH - IT WAS NOT THE MOST POPULAR DECISION ONE COULD MAKE FROM A MUSIC BUSINESS POSITION. I WAS TOLD BY ONE GOOD FRIEND WHO WAS THE EDITOR OF A POPULAR TEEN MAGAZINE AT THE TIME (I WAS ASKED TO MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO AN ARTICLE ON "TURNING 30" AND IT SO HAPPENED I HAD JUST BECOME BORN AGAIN AND IT WAS BASICALLY A TESTIMONY) BUT HE TOLD ME "I CAN'T PRINT THIS - IT WILL BE THE END OF YOUR CAREER". THE PRESIDENT OF THE RECORD COMPANY CHALLENGED ME BEFORE I FINISHED "I'VE GOT A REASON" - "YOU'RE NOT GONNA GIVE ME ANY OF THAT JESUS MUSIC ARE YOU?" AND, WE'LL, FROM THERE IT WAS AGAIN A PIONEERING PROCESS THAT, AS I LOOK BACK NOW, MAY HAVE CLEARED THE WAY, OR OPENED THE DOOR FOR SOME OF THE MUSICIANS WHO ARE BELIEVERS TO HAVE PURSUE THOSE AVENUES OF MAINSTREAM R&R! WHEN THE RECORD COMPANIES REALIZED THERE WAS MONEY TO BE MADE IT WASN'T LONG BEFORE THEY GOT ON BOARD - EVEN DEVELOPING DIVISIONS WITHIN THEIR MAJOR COMPANIES FOR JUST THAT PURPOSE. I HOPE SOME OTHERS GET TO HEAR THE ALBUMS NOW THAT THEY'RE ON CD - WE'LL SEE!

Q) - What do you look back and listen to with most satisfaction?

A - I DON'T LISTEN TO A LOT OF MY MUSIC TODAY - EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE I'LL PUT SOMETHING ON. IT'S INTERESTING FOR ME TO HEAR THE DIVERSITY IN THE MUSIC THOUGH - FROM "KIND WOMAN / PICKIN' UP THE PIECES" - "SAD MEMORY / GOOD TIME BOY" - "YESTERDAY'S GONE" / "STAND YOUR GUARD" - "OOH DREAMER" / GOOD FEELING TO KNOW". i GUESS IF YOU'RE ASKING WHAT IS MY FAVORITE ALBUM - I GUESS "GOOD FEELIN' TO KNOW" BECAUSE I THINK THAT ALBUM REALLY SHOWED WHAT POCO WAS ALL ABOUT - THE DEPTH TO WHAT WE WERE CAPABLE OF DOING. MY SOLO ALBUMS ALSO HAVE A SPECIAL PLACE IN MY HEART WHEN I LOOK BACK BECAUSE I WAS PRETTY MUCH ON MY OWN TO CREATE THE MUSIC. I DID A LOT MORE CO-WRITING BUT ALL THE MELODIES WERE MINE AND THE LYRICS. AS I LOOK BACK ON THE WHOLE HISTORY - THERE'S NOT ONE SONG I WOULD BE ASHAMED TO SING ANYWHERE, EVEN TODAY.

Q) - When you look back do you ever find God lurking in the story before Al Perkins brought him right into your home?

A) - OF COURSE! IN "PICKIN' UP THE PIECES" THERE'S SUBTLE REFERENCES AND IN SOME OF THE OTHER SONGS AS WELL. BUT LONG BEFORE I KNEW I'D BECOME A BELIEVER - GOD WAS REACHING OUT TO ME - HAD ME IN HIS SIGHTS.

Q) - You were not really seeking God. What were your preconceptions of Him? How did Al break those down?

A) - I WAS REALLY A LOT MORE NAIVE THAN YOU MIGHT SUSPECT. I GREW UP GOING TO A PROTESTANT CHURCH, BUT I WOULDN'T SAY OUR FAMILY WAS OVERLY "RELIGIOUS" - CHURCH ON SUNDAYS BUT NOTHING BEYOND THAT. WHEN MY DAD DIED (I WAS 13), GOING TO CHURCH SLOWLY SLIPPED FROM THE ROUTINE AS FAR AS I CAN REMEMBER. UP 'TIL THAT TIME I NEVER REALLY KNEW EVEN THE BASICS OF CHRISTIANITY - JESUS LOVED ME, DIED FOR SINS,BELIEVE IN HIM IF YOU WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN. CHURCH WAS MORE OF A SOCIAL EVENT FOR ME. AL TOOK THE INITIATIVE AND BEGAN SHARING THESE BASICS TO ME. UP 'TIL THAT TIME I NEVER KNEW I COULD HAVE A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD OR THAT I NEEDED ONE IF I HAD HOPES FOR HEAVEN.

BUT, AS I STATED EARLIER, THERE WERE STILL THINGS IN MY MUSIC THAT WOULD INDICATE SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE MY HEART HAD BEEN TOUCHED BY CHRIST WHETHER I KNEW IT OR NOT. (THE REFERENCES IN "PICKIN' UP THE PIECES" AND "OH YEAH" AND MAYBE SOME I'M FORGETTING - WERE NOR CONSCIOUS EFFORTS TO PROSELYTIZE.) I WASN'T A "RELIGIOUS" PERSON. I'M NOT SURE WHAT MY PRECONCEPTIONS WERE - I CERTAINLY DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT THE ETERNAL CONSEQUENCES UNTIL AL STARTED SHARING WITH ME. LIKE MANY PEOPLE IN THE 60'S I DABBLED AROUND WITH THE EASTERN INFLUENCE BUT WAS NOT DRAWN TO EMBRACE IT. I REMEMBER ONE OF THE PRE-REQUISITES FOR GOING ON THE BEACH BOY TOURS WAS TO GO THROUGH THE INITIATION PROCESS OF TRANSCENDENTAL MEDITATION AND THE MAHARISHI MAHESH YOGI. I REMEMBER TAKING MY FRUIT AND FLOWERS AND GETTING SOME WORD TO REPEAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND GOING INTO A GYMNASIUM LOCKER ROOM WITH JIMMY MESSINA WHEN BOTH OF US WERE IN "LESS THAN 'NORMAL' FRAME OF MIND" AND WE SAID - "NO, I DON'T THINK SO" AND NEVER LOOKED BACK ON THAT. I HAD QUITE A FEW FRIENDS WHO WERE INTO THE AMERICAN HINDU "STUFF" AT THAT TIME AND IT JUST NEVER TOOK HOLD.

I BELIEVE TODAY IT WAS JESUS PROTECTING ME AND KEEPING ME FROM LETTING MYSELF GET INVOLVED. AT ANY RATE, EVEN WHEN AL CAME ALONG, I WASN'T SEEKING OR LOOKING FOR GOD - BUT I KNOW HE WAS LOOKING FOR ME. THAT'S THE ONE INTERESTING THING ABOUT CHRISTIANITY - THE THING THAT SEPARATES IT FROM EVERY OTHER RELIGION - -- EVERY OTHER RELIGION IS MAN SEEKING GOD, SEEKING TO ATTAIN SOME SPIRITUAL AWARENESS AND "GET TO GOD", WHEREAS CHRISTIANITY IS GOD SEEKING MAN - JESUS, COMING FROM HEAVEN'S GLORY TO EARTH, TAKING ON A BODY OF HUMAN FLESH - (YET WITHOUT SIN [Hebrews 4:15), AND REVEALING THE ONE TRUE GOD TO MAN. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!

THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF SALVATION - GOD DOING FOR MAN WHAT WE COULD NEVER DO FOR OURSELF. WHEN DOES ONE EVER KNOW THEY HAVE DONE ENOUGH TO PLEASE GOD, TO BE "GOOD ENOUGH" TO GET TO HEAVEN - SO EVERY OTHER RELIGION BECOMES A RELIGION OF NEVER ENDING "WORKS" IN TRYING TO PLEASE GOD, WHEREAS CHRISTIANITY SAYS, BELIEVE GOD AND "THE WORK" OF JESUS CHRIST AT CALVARY, THE BLOOD HE SHED FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SIN - THAT'S WHAT GOD REQUIRES FOR MAN TO STAND BEFORE HIM IN THE FINAL (John 6:29)! AL SHOWED ME CHRIST LIVING IN HIM. HE SHOWED ME A GOD WHO LOVED ME UNCONDITIONALLY (I WAS NOT VERY NICE TO AL WHEN CHRIS INSISTED HE BE A PART OF THE SHF BAND). AL WAS PATIENT AND PERSISTENT AND GOD USED HIM TO SOFTEN MY HEART TO THE GRACE OF HIS SALVATION.

Q) - In Jim McDonough’s book about Neil Young – Shakey – It says, “ After Buffalo Springfield, Stephen Stills would be the architect of the unrelentingly successful Crosby, Still and Nash; Richie Furay would have success in Poco before becoming a minister; and Neil Young would go on to do a million things.” Your line is quite a line if you think about it. (not sure of this is a question but if you want to comment on it that would be cool)

A) - IT'S KINDA LIKE AFTER POCO THERE WAS NOTHING LEFT TO MY LIFE. A LINE FROM 'I'VE GOT A REASON' SUMS UP THE REALITY OF MY HEART WHEN I REALLY TOOK A LONG HARD LOOK AT IT: "MUSIC WAS MY LIFE AND FINALLY TOOK EVERYTHING - AIN'T IT FUNNY HOW YOU GOT IT ALL AND NOT A THING"! IN MY HEART OF HEARTS AS JESUS SAID: "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." LUKE 9:62, AND AS THE PSALMS SAY: Delight yourself also in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. PSALM 37:4 I HAVE BEEN BLESSED MORE THAN ANY ONE MAN SHOULD BE. I HAVE LIVED MY DREAMS AS FAR AS MY MUSICAL CAREER GOES, A PRECIOUS WIFE OF 36 YEARS, FOUR DAUGHTERS (TWO MARRIED) TWO GRANDSONS), NAME WRITTEN IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE - WHAT MORE COULD I ASK FOR?

Q) - Let me ask you about vocation. Frederick Buechner says that our vocation is where “our deepest gladness meets the world’s greatest hunger.” Did your deepest gladness move away from music to preaching?

A) - MUSIC IS STILL VERY MUCH A PART OF MY LIFE AND HOLDS A VERY PASSIONATE PLACE IN MY HEART. I BELIEVE IT HAS MORE MEANING THAN EVER TO ME. IF I WRITE A SONG ABOUT MY WIFE I NOW KNOW WHO GAVE ME SUCH A BLESSING. IF I WRITE A SONG OF PRAISE AND WORSHIP, I KNOW WHO LOVED ME AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME! PREACHING IS "PROCLAIMING" THE WORD OF LIFE - I'M ONLY GLAD I'VE BEEN GIVEN SUCH AN HONOR TO BE A SERVANT OF THE LORD! YOU KNOW WHEN I WAS GROWING UP I WANTED TO BE A LOT OF THINGS - I WANTED TO BE A FIREMAN; I WANTED TO BE A DOCTOR; I WANTED TO BE A BASEBALL PLAYER - I WANTED TO BE A PROFESSIONAL MUSICIAN. CERTAINLY AS I GREW UP A BIT I REALIZED I WASN'T BRAVE ENOUGH TO BE A FIREMAN; I WASN'T SMART ENOUGH TO BE A DOCTOR; I WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO BE A BALL PLAYER; I DID OK AS A MUSICIAN, BUT YOU KNOW, ONE THING I NEVER PUT ON MY LIST OF "WANNABE'S" WAS SERVANT. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN - "I THINK I WANT OT BE A SERVANT WHEN I GROW UP - NOT ONE TIME DID THAT CROSS MY MIND, BUT THAT'S WHAT I HAVE BECOME - A SERVANT OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST - AND THAT MAKES ME GLAD! Q) - Was it a decision of one being of more value than the other or just circumstances that led you away from the music?

A) - CERTAINLY THERE'S NO REAL WAY TO COMPARE THE TWO. THE VALUE OF WHAT I DID AS A MUSICIAN IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. THE E-MAILS I GET LET ME KNOW - EVEN TODAY - THAT THE MUSIC I MADE HAS HAD A DEEP IMPACT ON MANY, BUT CIRCUMSTANCES DID LEAD ME AWAY FOR A PROFESSIONAL CAREER TO THAT OF A 'CALLING"! I STILL GET TO SHARE MY HEART IN MUSIC, BUT I GET TO TELL PEOPLE ABOUT THE KING OF THE UNIVERSE, THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD - SO THIS MESSAGE HAS ETERNAL VALUE WHEREAS THE MESSAGE BEFORE ONLY HAS LIFE HERE & NOW!

Q) - Are they two different vocations or one of communication through slightly different disciplines?

A) - I TRULY BELIEVE THEY "FIT" TOGETHER, BECAUSE THEY'RE BOTH A PART OF ME. I DO COMBINE THE TWO AND AM ABLE TO "GO OUT' AND SHARE MY MUSIC - ALL OF IT - AS WELL AS SHARE THE LOVE OF JESUS AND WHAT HE HAS DONE AND IS DOING IN MY LIFE. CERTAINLY MY APPROACH IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM WHEN I FIRST STARTED DOING THIS - BUT IT'S BECAUSE I'M MORE SECURE WITH WHO I AM IN THE LORD AND WHO HE IS TO ME. THROUGH MUSIC AND TESTIMONY, I'M ABLE TO COMMUNICATE HOW AWESOME THIS LIVING, PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST IS - IT IS TRULY A LOVE STORY.

Q) - Are there are any ways your career in rock music prepared you for the ministry?

A) - ONLY IN SO MUCH AS THEY BOTH HAVE GIVEN ME OPPORTUNITY TO BE INVOLVED WITH PEOPLE'S LIVES. FOR SOME PEOPLE THE MUSIC I MADE IS A RELIGION TO THEM - TODAY, MANY WHO HAVE WRITTEN ME OFF OR SHIED AWAY FROM ME BECAUSE OF MY CONVERSION TO CHRIST ARE MORE OPEN TO HEAR AND LISTEN. MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THEY SEE THIS RELATIONSHIP IS NOT A PASSING MOMENT. ISN'T IT INTERESTING WHEN THINKING ABOUT THIS - YOU CAN BE A FOLLOWER OF JUST ABOUT ANYONE, BE ANY KIND OF PERSON, DO AWFUL THINGS AND YOU CAN STILL BE ACCEPTED (OR TOLERATED) BUT PROFESS A FAITH IN CHRIST AND YOU'RE "CRUCIFIED". JESUS SAID: "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. John 15:18. I BELIEVE IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE AFRAID THEY TOO MIGHT FALL IN LOVE WITH JESUS. THERE IS A SPIRITUAL WARFARE GOING IN IN THE WORLD TODAY FOR THE SOULS OF LOST MEN AND WOMEN! Q) - You became a Christian during the Souther, Hillman, Furay Band days. How did coming to faith effect your writing? You didn’t go all evangelical. Indeed when you have dabbled back in, you haven’t felt any need to reject the old and write all the new.

A) - I AM WHO I AM. I WANT MY LIFE TO BRING HONOR TO JESUS CHRIST - THAT DOESN'T MEAN EVERY SONG I WRITE HAS TO BE A TAKE OFF ON "JESUS LOVES ME THIS I KNOW, FOR THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO". MOST OF MY SONGS THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY DIRECTED TO A CHRISTIAN AUDIENCE ARE WORSHIP AND PRAISE SONGS NOW. I DID WRITE "CONTEMPORARY CHRISTIAN" SONGS EARLY ON ("I'VE GOT A REASON" - "SEASONS OF CHANGE"). WHEN A SONG IS HEADING TOWARDS A SECULAR AUDIENCE, I SIMPLY WRITE ABOUT MY LIFE FROM MY PERSPECTIVE TODAY. EITHER WAY - WHETHER OBVIOUS OR NOT, JESUS IS AT THE HEART OF ALL I SAY AND DO! Q) - As a writer did you just stop writing as much or have you a ten album box set ready to release?

A) - I WISH! I DO HAVE AN ALBUMS WORTH OF MUSIC READY TO GO AND HOPEFULLY I'LL GET IT RECORDED ONE OF THESE DAYS. I CONTINUE TO WRITE WITH MY PARTNER - SCOTT SELLEN. I AM GETTING READY TO RECORD ANOTHER DEVOTIONAL CD IN APRIL.

Q) - If you are still writing is the writing a hobby, part of the ministry or a separate vocation? A) - I ALWAYS WRITE WITH A PURPOSE IN MIND EITHER FOR WORSHIP OR SOMETHING THAT HAS PERSONALLY TOUCHED ME. I DO SEE MUCH OF MY WRITING AS A PART OF MY OVER ALL MINISTRY, WHETHER THE SONG IS DIRECTED SPECIFICALLY TO THE LORD OR INDIRECTLY. Q) - You released a devotional/worship album a few years back. Any plans for more? A) - AS I SAID I BEGIN WORKING ON IT IN APRIL.

Q) - Are you still in touch with the rock n roll fraternity that you were so much a part of?

A) - NOT ON A REGULAR BASIS, BUT SOMEWHAT - ESPECIALLY THE GUYS IN POCO WITH WHOM I "SIT IN" WITH IF THEY'RE IN OR CLOSE TO TOWN.

Q) - How do they view you being a minister?

A) - AT FIRST THEY WERE QUITE RELUCTANT TO ALLOW THEMSELVES TO GET TOO CLOSE. WHEN WE RECORDED THE "REUNION" POCO ALBUM IN THE EARLY 90'S SOME OF THE SONGS I SUBMITTED WERE REJECTED BECAUSE THEY "APPEARED" TO BE TOO RELIGIOUS. ON THE CONTRARY, THEY WERE SINCERE LOVE SONGS THAT ANYONE COULD HAVE INTERPRETED IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS - EVERY ONE WAS PARANOID ABOUT GIVING ME TOO MUCH SPACE IS THE WAY I SAW IT. AS YOU OBSERVED EARLIER You didn’t go all evangelical IT'S UNFORTUNATE THERE WAS SO MUCH "FEAR", BUT THEN AGAIN I REMEMBER HOW I "FELT" WHEN CHRIS INSISTED ON AL PERKINS BEING IN THE SHF BAND, I DIDN'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM BECAUSE I WAS CONVINCED IN MY MIND - HIM BEING A CHRISTIAN WOULD GET "IN THE WAY" OF THE ROAD TO R&R SUCCESS THAT WAS CONSUMING ME AT THE TIME!

Q) - What about Neil and Stephen especially?

A) - I ONLY SPEAK TO THEM OR SEE THEM ON RARE OCCASIONS (BS BOX SET - IF ONE OF THEM IS IN THE AREA DOING A CONCERT - ETC.)!

Q) - On Are You Passionate? Neil mentions two old friends talking about God. You?

A) - I HAVE NO IDEA - I HAVEN'T HEARD IT.

Q) - Tell us about your Church? A) - WE ARE A SMALL NON-DENOMINATIONAL CHURCH. OUR METHOD OF TEACHING IS "BOOK BY BOOK" - "VERSE BY VERSE"! OUR FOCUS IS ON THE JESUS CHRIST. KEY WORDS IN OUR VISION STATEMENT WOULD READ: "PROCLAIM" (THE WORD/THE WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD - THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST TO ALL WHO COME THROUGH OUR DOORS ) Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. "SUSTAIN / MAINTAIN" (THOSE WHO COME TO BE MINISTERED TO - HELP THEM GROW IN THE WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD THROUGH WORSHIP, TEACHING, FELLOWSHIP AND PRAYER.) Acts 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. Acts 4:11-16 11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head——Christ—— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. "GO CLAIM" (THE LOST - SHARE THE TESTIMONY OF OUR FAITH TO ALL WE CAN) Matthew 28:19-20 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. Acts 1:8 "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Q) - Are you Rev. Richie or are you the rock legend in the pulpit, to them?

A) - NO - NEITHER. I'M SIMPLY RICHIE OR PASTOR RICHIE. I BELIEVE ONLY ONE IS ENTITLED TO AND DESERVING OF THE TITLE "REVEREND" - Psalms 89:7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, And to be held in reverence by all those around Him. I AM SIMPLY ONE OF HIS UNDER SHEPHERDS. JUST BECAUSE I AM A "PASTOR", I'M SIMPLY A SERVANT OF THE LORD FULFILLING ONE OF THE OFFICES IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. WE WILL ALWAYS GET PEOPLE TO COME AND VISIT BECAUSE OF MY PAST - 1 Corinthians 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; I WANT TO BE TRANSPARENT IN MY SERVICE TO & FOR THE LORD, SO WHEN ONE VISITS, IF THEY'RE COMING FOR ANY OTHER REASON THAN TO SEE JESUS THEY MIGHT BE DISAPPOINTED.

Q) - Who have been the main influences on your ministry?

A) - OF COURSE PASTOR CHUCK SMITH WHO BEGAN THE CALVARY CHAPEL MOVEMENT. GREG LAURIE, ANOTHER CALVARY PASTOR. ALAN REDPATH! G. CAMPBELL MORGAN. MARTYN LLOYD JONES. F. B. MEYER. THESE MEN WERE GREAT MEN OF GOD WHO WROTE SOME AWESOME COMMENTARIES.

Q) - What is your day to day role?

A) - I KINDA MAKE UP THE RULES AS I GO - WHATEVER IS NECESSARY. I'LL GO TO MY OFFICE AROUND MID-MORNING AND BE AVAILABLE FOR ANY NUMBER OF THINGS

Q) - Do you think the Church in general is influencing society enough?

A) - NO, I REALLY DON'T! IT SEEMS TO BE FOLLOWING CLOSE TO PROPHECY THOUGH. JESUS SAID: Luke 18:8 Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?" AND: Luke 17:26 "And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man TO THE "LAST DAYS" CHURCH, JESUS PLEADS WITH THEM IN A LETTER: Revelation 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. WE FIND JESUS COMPLETELY EXCLUDED FROM THE CHURCH IN THE LATTER DAYS - TODAY THE LIBERAL CHURCH IS HEADING IN THIS DIRECTION IF NOT ALREADY THERE - IT'S AN ORGANIZATION RATHER THAN A LIVING ORGANISM. THE CHURCH HAS BECOME MORE AND MORE POLITICAL AND SOCIAL IN NATURE.

Q) - Who do you listen to musically?

A) - I LISTEN TO COUNTRY MUSIC AS FAR AS THE SECULAR GOES AND THEN MOSTLY WORSHIP AND PRAISE FROM A CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE. I'M NOT AS INTERESTED IN "CONTEMPORARY CHRISTIAN ARTISTS"

Q) - What are you reading?

A) - I NEVER HAVE BEEN MUCH OF A READER - NOT EVEN THE "FUNNIES" AS A KID - I SPEND MOST OF MY TIME READING THE 66 WONDERFUL BOOKS OF THE BIBLE AND COMMENTARIES. I DO READ THE NEWSPAPERS QUITE REGULARLY TO KEEP UP ON CURRENT EVENTS.

Q) - What would you say to a budding musician out there who is following Jesus but pursuing a career in rock music?

A) - MAKE SURE YOU'RE FOLLOWING JESUS! DAVID WROTE: Psalm 16:8 "I have set the LORD always before me; Because He is at my right hand I shall not be moved." FAR TOO MANY WHO ARE SEEKING SOME KIND OF A "CAREER IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS" ARE EASILY SWAYED AND FORGET THEIR CALLING.

Horslips - The Jim Lockhart Soul Surmise Interview

STOCKI: What are you been doing in these non Horslips years?

JIM: After the band split I got into doing advertising jingles and then into TV music "theme music and incidental music for dramas and documentaries and soaps, plus MD-ing (with Barry) on series like The Live Mike, which featured the late and greatly-missed Dermot Morgan. He was a quite a bunch of characters to work with. One of his regular personae was a manic priest, Fr. Trendy, who foreshadowed Fr. Ted. That whole period was a great training ground in terms of learning the craft" writing, arranging, scoring, producing: different kettle of fish to dossing around in a band with your mates. I went back and studied orchestration for two years to get on top of writing for strings and brass and so on. But by the end of the 80's I'd seen enough of TV and moved over to radio, which is a much more intimate, direct medium. You don't need a cast of thousands looking after makeup and wardrobe and vision mixing and whatnot, it can be as simple as you and a mic, and your vision's in your head. I was lucky enough to find myself after a few years working mainly with Dave Fanning, and we've stuck together as his territory has shifted over time. And with Ian Wilson I've produced most of 2FM's live music output, which has meant producer credits on releases by Van Morrison, Divine Comedy and the final Stone Roses live EP. Rather pleased about that.

ST: So when did you yourself hear of a reunion?

JIM: Maurice Linnane was the director with Dreamchaser, a film production company that did videos for U2 for donkey's years, as well as other projects like the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland. As a kid he'd been a mad Horslips fan, and now he wanted to make the definitive film history of the band. So after a few preliminary skirmishes, that started to take shape about the start of last year. Meanwhile in various corners of Northern Ireland, Jim Nelis, Stephen Ferris and Paul Callaghan had discovered a mutual passion for collecting Horslips memorabilia, and decided that what they had amassed between them shouldn't be kept under a bushel. So they decided to stage an exhibition in the Orchard Gallery in Derry, and that came to fruition about March of 2004. They'd asked us at an early stage if we'd all come along whenever it would open and we said sure, no problem. But as the day drew near we realised we couldn't very well turn up and not a note out of us, so we got together in my front room over a few weekends, got O'Connor over from Whitby, and strung together 20 or 25 minutes' worth of an acoustic set. In fact we'd done a couple of exploratory sessions in Charles's place a year or two earlier, but there was no impetus to keep us at it so it hadn't led anywhere. But this felt like a bit of fun and the opening was a blast – both playing at it and the exhibition itself, which left us staggered at the range of posters and memorabilia the guys had collected and the sheer class with which it was displayed. It was an amazing night, brilliant audience reaction, and by now Maurice was filming away, and Pat Maguire and Steve Iredale from our old crew magically appeared and suddenly there was a feeling of momentum. So that was the tipping-point. It was only a short hop to the idea of an acoustic album.

ST: And what were your initial feelings?

JIM: Well we were all a bit apprehensive beforehand, but the rehearsals started throwing up new ways of looking at things, and voices and instrumental styles and tastes had changed and developed, so it became an unexpectedly fresh experience, exhilarating at times.

ST: Why has it not happened before?

JIM: While that whole legal business was happening between about 1980 and 2000, we couldn't really do anything without contributing to sales of the illicit copies of our albums that were in circulation and so endangering the long-term goal of getting back control of the music. So we had a sort of self-imposed radio silence. Extraordinarily effective in retrospect.

ST: The talk at the time of the break up was that there was a bit of friction in the band. How true?

JIM: What's remarkable is that there wasn't more. We were pretty exhausted after touring solidly and living in each other's pockets for ten years, putting out an album a year, and like any normal healthy individuals we'd started to grow in different directions. So we'd got to the point of being tetchy and disagreeable. We didn't realize then that many – maybe even most - bands start from there and get worse.

ST: If there was had the years healed?

JIM: Ah yeah, the nice thing about the current setup is that there's no pressure apart from wanting to do it right. So we can take it easy.

ST: Do you all remember the good times with just a little more in focus?

JIM: Focus, maybe no. It's all a bit hazy, which I have to assume means I had a pleasant time!

ST: I have to ask you Jim?On Roll Back?Where?s the flute in Trouble?

JIM: I tried flute on various tracks on the new album; it wasn't ruled out but for some reason it wouldn't sit comfortably anywhere I tried it. Didn't seem to gell with the sort of roots countryish feel. So rather than force it in, the governing vibe was if in doubt, leave it out. As for Trouble specifically, it changed rhythmically and feel-wise, with the slide guitar taking over the lazier version of the riff. So best not to muddy the waters.

ST: In the light of that how much thought went into the new arrangements?

JIM: Not so much thought, more experimentation. The Trouble arrangement grew out of a few sessions jamming in Charles's place in Whitby two or three years ago. The 3/4 versions of Man Who Built America and Wrath Of The Rain were how they were originally written by Barry on acoustic guitar. Johnny‘s slide playing and Charles's tenor and slide guitar just had everyone's mouth watering in studio, so they had to be given room to breathe. A lot of stuff came together in studio, in fact, rather than being meticulously planned. Like putting The Lambs On The Green Hills in counterpoint to Wrath Of The Rain, that was just experimenting as we recorded.

ST: Why did you chose the songs you did? Was it that they were favourites or that they most lent themselves to acoustic arrangements?

JIM: A bit of both. We tried a few others, but these were the ones that seemed most comfortable in this context.

ST: You were saying in Hot Press about which Horslips would return if you started touring? Would making an album and touring not be the way to find out?

JIM: Yes and no. Everyone's got a fair amount of work and family commitments that we didn't have before, so touring isn't that straightforward an option. A few gigs from time to time would be easier to get the head around. As for what you'd get on stage, we'd have to see what we sounded like! But the couple of live sessions we've done so far have been both fun and encouraging.

ST: So are there now some creative juices flowing for a new album?

JIM: No sign of that yet. But who knows what people have up their sleeves?

ST: Hot Press again described you as one of the ?Most culturally influential outfits.? Did you realise that at the time?

JIM: Nah, we were out for a bit of crack. We were serious about the music though. But that's not the same as covering yourself with a culturally influential mantle. Plus that's for other people to judge, and only in retrospect.

ST: Is this what the Return Of The Dancehall Sweethearts DVD is all about?

JIM: The DVD is something we can sit back and look at, since it's someone else's baby: Maurice Linnane has taken this idea from birth and run with it, so the first we saw was when it was all done and dusted. And yes there is a bit of culturally-influential going on, which is very flattering, but there's also amateur footage of us mooning from German hotel balconies, which is more like real life. And a fair bit of scene-setting black-and-white TV stuff from what seems like another era. Well, it was.

ST: Was the move from Celtic folk to American rock a sign that you had lost the art for the commerce?

JIM: I don't think so: every album we did had a different feel, a different approach, a different blend of rock and roots and acoustic and electric. Probably not the most commercially-sussed way to go about building an international audience. But we had a sort of core agenda, and we kept at it. There's traditional ingredients on the last few albums just as much as on, say, Dancehall Sweethearts or The Unfortunate Cup of Tea. Which came before Drive the Cold Winter Away, remember. So I don't really accept that we left celtic behind; the acoustic element had always ebbed and flowed. Plus which the music had always reflected where we were at personally, and where we were at was increasingly America. So that was something we were absorbing and dealing with at one remove by putting our own reactions in the context of the fierce moustachioed men 100 years earlier. And we were revelling in being a solidly honed band, as a result of all that gigging.

ST: Do you ever think if you had had the luxury that bands have now of longer between albums that you?d have been more consistent in output. I am thinking that Book Of Invasions was a big one to follow but three or four years and you might just have topped it. Aliens seemed to have a great concept but without being fully realised.

JIM: Perhaps, but then again we might just have gone to the pub!

ST: There has been some talk of legal battles to claim back the rights to the albums. Now that you have that and the profile is up? Can we hope for re-releases with extensive sleeve notes and extra tracks? Only nine tracks on the Belfast Gigs? Surely there is more stuff from the Vaults?

There was more stuff from the Belfast Gigs, but unfortunately the master tapes have gone AWOL. Other than that I think we've put out pretty much everything else that's lying around, bar a few stray tracks like Bridge From Heart To Heart. However live recordings we did for US radio stations have turned up in the last few years and we never thought they'd surface again, so who knows? Maurice has collected a bundle of live TV performances which will form part of the DVD package when it comes out, so that's something people won't have seen. Which may not have been a bad thing. I might take a long holiday.

Mike Scott - The Adventurings and Learnings Interview - The Full Transcript

STOCKI: Environment has a huge influence on your work - Spiddal on Room To Roam, Findhorn on Bring Em All In, London on A Rock In A Weary Land. Are you strategic about where you go to write and record?

MIKE: I generally make 'em wherever I find myself but on occasion I have made a decision in advance to, for example, write and record in the West of Ireland (late 80's), or to record the new Universal Hall album in Findhorn, in the spiritually charged atmosphere of the Findhorn Community. I am always inspired by the places I live and by what I feel and see around me, and this inevitably flows into the music and the albums.

STOCKI: So what took you back to Findhorn?

MIKE: My wife and I visited in 2001 after several years living in London and both got a 'yes' feeling to moving back.

STOCKI: Maybe that is a chance to sketch us your spiritual journey. What triggered it?

MIKE: If you mean what triggered my whole spiritual journey, it was being born on planet earth of course ! I've always been wondering who I am, what are we here for, what is God etc. I got an early sense of the nature of the divine from CS Lewis's Narnia stories as a child. Then as a young man I discovered the world of metaphysical and esoteric teaching and wisdom - this was around 1983. That began a long period of deepened learning - some high, some painful. Finally, after many adventures I found my school - and that was the Findhorn Foundation.

STOCKI: How did it lead you to Findhorn?

MIKE: My mother had been there on a healing workshop and told me about the place. I remembered hearing about it years before, so I checked out a video featuring its founders, especially Eileen Caddy. She was talking about the power of gratitude and unconditional love and it was exactly what I was ready to hear. I went there as quickly as I could and did an 'Experience Week' there during which God came down from my head into my heart. A very beautiful and transformative experience.

STOCKI: Eileen Caddy seems to be a bit of a guru. Tell us about her? What drew you to her stuff?

MIKE: 'Guru',with all its distortions, would be the last word Eileen Caddy would use to describe herself. She is a teacher, certainly, primarily by the example of her own life. She's an ordinary woman who has lived in an extraordinary way - following the inner guidance of the 'still small voice within'- the voice of God within - wherever it leads, however strange its instructions might appear to human values. Her whole teaching is to turn others inward to find that inner divine source within themselves (the mark of the true spiritual teacher), and that is what I've learned from her. I love her a whole lot and am very grateful for the privilege of knowing her.

STOCKI: In a world of definitions would you label your creed "new age"?

MIKE: And what creed might that be ? I have none. I personally believe we are truly One in our deepest truth; that there is One Life in creation, and all our adventurings and learnings are leading us to that realization. This is the perennial wisdom and it has been around as long as God.

STOCKI: You have been reasonably clear if quiet and gentle about rejecting Christianity and yet Iona, CS Lewis and Christ are all very much a part of your belief?

MIKE: I don't reject Christianity. It is the religion of my race and like everyone else here I grew up with the stories of the example and teaching of Jesus - and how could I be untouched by that ? But I am not a practising Christian. I'm not even sure Jesus would be if he incarnated today ! As for CS Lewis, yes, he was a committed Christian, but I find if a writer or teacher is infused by the true divine spirit, as Lewis undoubtedly was, this is magnified and transmitted through their work regardless of the name of their faith. Iona is well known as a Christian centre because of the work of St. Columba who brought Christrianity there in the 6th century, but it was a Druid centre of power before then, and the island has a spiritual quality or soul that is divinely and powerfully Itself - and accessible to all who have eyes to see, regardless of their spiritual background or religion. Lastly the Christ to me is the divine energy that Jesus manifested on the physical earth - hence his bearing the name 'Jesus Christ', but I believe the Christ energy existed before Jesus, and is a universal energy infusing every part of creation, and every human being, whether they call themselves 'Christian' or not.

STOCKI: Why Iona?

MIKE: My grandmother grew up on the neighbouring island of Mull and from an early age I was familiar with the idea that Iona is Scotland's sacred island - a special place set apart. When I eventually visited it I found the spiritual peace and presence there and loved it.

STOCKI: What is CS Lewis's greatest contribution to your own journey?

MIKE: Infusing me with a sense of the divine when I was a child. Later, with his books 'Perelandra' and 'That Hideous Strength' he taught me a lot about the topography and inner life of what we call evil. That was useful too.

STOCKI: Who do you see Jesus of Nazareth as being?

MIKE: One of a succession of divinely directed world teachers who incarnated at successive periods of human history when as a race we were ready to go through initiations. And I see Jesus as being a real and available spiritual presence right now.

STOCKI: While we are there, Pan with his cloven hoofs. Who is he/she? The cloven hoofs is an image usually given to the devil.

MIKE: The 'devil' image was superimposed on Pan by the early church fathers in order to discredit the pre-Christian nature religions, that they sought to replace. Pan is not the devil, but a principle of creation, and - in my book - a divine ally of the Christ energies.

STOCKI: I was there in Belfast's Ulster Hall when Steve Wickham came on stage and the crowd went wild. It was echoes of my favourite gig ever in the same venue in April '86. How did you get back together?

MIKE: Steve and I are great friends and even when we weren't working professionally together we were always in touch. In 1999 Steve invited me to Sligo, where he lives in the west of Ireland, to do a show. So I went over and we did a two-man concert together. It was a great success and I knew we had a lot of music still to make together. Then I asked him to guest with us at our shows in Dublin and Belfast in 2000. It went so well I asked him to rejoin the band, and, to my great pleasure and delight, he is back and playing the greatest rock fiddling ever !

STOCKI: What does he add to the Mike Scott/Waterboys muse?

MIKE: Steve gives the music wings, a sense of the elemental, a sweetness, a gateway to the unseen.

STOCKI: In the writing of these songs does a fiddle on stand by effect where the songs go?

MIKE: Yes, indeed. 'Peace of Iona' was a hypnotic chant until Steve's fiddle entered the picture and turned it into a sonic evocation of the island and the elements.

STOCKI: How did Steve take the spirituality of the piece and how did he enjoy Findhorn?

MIKE: Well, I can't answer that for him, though we had a great time together in Findhorn making 'Universal Hall'. He has visited many times.

STOCKI: Some of the new songs are almost Taize chants. What inspired the economy of words?

MIKE: I'm familiar with Taize chants because they are very popular in Findhorn, and I also work with affirmations, so I'm used to the idea that a few short lines of words, carefully chosen and repeated aloud or inwardly, can have a powerful inspirational effect. When my songs started coming in this minimal form, with only 2 or 3 lines, the challenge was to allow them to be so, and not to be tempted to flesh them out into a 'normal' structure. I resisted the temptation ! >

STOCKI: When spiritual belief ignites the songs does that give an extra expectation to what you hope that they might achieve?

MIKE: My hope is the same whatever kind of song I'm writing - that I may express myself and my inspiration authentically, in a way that thrills me and takes my writing somewhere it has never reached before, and that the listener will have every chance to 'get it' and receive the same inspiration I did when writing.

STOCKI: What would you hope the listener takes away from Universal Hall?

MIKE: A feeling of love inside.

STOCKI: When I watch you perform now I get the impression of a man at peace with where his art has taken him. You could have been a megastar but you decided to get off the beaten track and head west to Galway. You seem to be very content at the level of your success. The songs seem more important than the riches, fame or house in Malibu. Am I right?

MIKE: Whether I 'could have been a megastar' is unknown. As CS Lewis liked to say 'We are never told what might have happened'. Nor am I interested in what might have happened ! I've always followed my heart, guts and fascinations and I have learned to surrender to the places - both physical and inspirational - to which they take me. Yes, the songs and creativity are more important than any riches that could result, but I have nothing against houses in Malibu. Malibu is a very fine place indeed.

STOCKI So, where next?

MIKE: This is unknown !

Mike Scott - The Adventurings and Learnings Interview

The Waterboys’ mainman, Mike Scott is a gentle spirit, full of wide eyed wonder and wide hearted love. When I asked him what triggered the spiritual journey that is so evident in his music he responded “if you mean what triggered my whole spiritual journey, it was being born on planet earth of course!” For Scott life is big and every moment is full of the hugest potential. He brandishes his brush way outside of the lines but the lines are never ignored, just used as signposts to something higher, wider and deeper than the confinement of definitions. God is spirit, within and without, way in and way out. When I ask him to label his Creed he responds with a seemingly unconstrained freedom and yet the clearest conviction, “And what creed might that be? I have none. I personally believe we are truly One in our deepest truth; that there is One Life in creation, and all our adventurings and learnings are leading us to that realization. This is the perennial wisdom and it has been around as long as God.”

As a musician Scott is a performer of gigantic proportions, a charismatic rock figure who holds concert halls in the grip of his hand. As a writer he is a visionary, a man of poetic words and sublime melodies. His songs seem so familiar, so comfortable, so beautiful. His sound is big even when stripped back to the acoustic guitar. When you hit his music with his faith you get a spark that lights the entire cosmos and the tiniest most hidden corners of the soul. It seems simple but is most profound. It seems effortless and casual but is focused and driven. It is inspirational; it lifts you, buoys you up, and takes you higher, never ignoring the darker side but shining that light over it, under it and through it. You feel that you could reach for the stars and actually touch them. You get less satisfied with the crescent; you want to grasp the whole of the moon.

The Waterboys new album is another instalment in Scott’s spiritual diary. Universal Hall sees the mystical troubadour back at the Findhorn Foundation, a spiritual community in the north east of his native Scotland and the place where Scott found “my school” through the writings of the one of the Foundations founders Eileen Caddy. I suggest she is a bit of a guru to him and he is quick to deflate such a lofty title. “'Guru',with all its distortions, would be the last word Eileen Caddy would use to describe herself. She is a teacher, certainly, primarily by the example of her own life. She's an ordinary woman who has lived in an extraordinary way - following the inner guidance of the 'still small voice within'- the voice of God within - wherever it leads, however strange its instructions might appear to human values. Her whole teaching is to turn others inward to find that inner divine source within themselves (the mark of the true spiritual teacher), and that is what I've learned from her. I love her a whole lot and am very grateful for the privilege of knowing her.”

There are many Christian reference points in Scott’s writings and yet he is sometimes hesitant about any affiliation with mainstream Christianity. I asked him about his name dropping of Iona, CS Lewis and Jesus himself and he was quick to talk about each one of them. “I don't reject Christianity. It is the religion of my race and like everyone else here I grew up with the stories of the example and teaching of Jesus - and how could I be untouched by that? But I am not a practising Christian. I'm not even sure Jesus would be if he incarnated today! As for CS Lewis, yes, he was a committed Christian, but I find if a writer or teacher is infused by the true divine spirit, as Lewis undoubtedly was, this is magnified and transmitted through their work regardless of the name of their faith. Iona is well known as a Christian centre because of the work of St. Columba who brought Christrianity there in the 6th century, but it was a Druid centre of power before then, and the island has a spiritual quality or soul that is divinely and powerfully Itself - and accessible to all who have eyes to see, regardless of their spiritual background or religion. Lastly the Christ to me is the divine energy that Jesus manifested on the physical earth - hence his bearing the name 'Jesus Christ', but I believe the Christ energy existed before Jesus, and is a universal energy infusing every part of creation, and every human being, whether they call themselves 'Christian' or not.”

Looking back at the twenty years of The Waterboys there have always been hints of the divine but it was 1995’s Bring Em All In the first of two albums that Scott released without The Waterboys moniker that the spiritual became such a force. The previous album recorded in New York after his few years in the west of Ireland had suggested a spiritual awakening as he sang “I just found God where he always was” but Bring ‘Em All In recorded in Findhorn was an album of spiritual songs of a man most sure. After his second solo album Scott who told a Greenbelt 94 audience “I am the Waterboys” took the band name back and made his most rocking album in over a decade A Rock in a Weary Land which looked at the tired dumbing down that the big city brings and holding on to the transcendent when the mundane is what is being celebrated.

In 2001 Scott and his wife visited Findhorn again and they “both got a 'yes' feeling to moving back.” And so Universal Hall the sacred space where both bring Em All In and the new album was recorded sees a return to the acoustic and more meditative. Without doubt The Waterboys albums are always effected by location. Does Scott go different places like you might use some musical instrument to purposely effect the music. He told me, “I generally make 'em wherever I find myself but on occasion I have made a decision in advance to, for example, write and record in the West of Ireland (late 80's), or to record the new Universal Hall album in Findhorn, in the spiritually charged atmosphere of the Findhorn Community. I am always inspired by the places I live and by what I feel and see around me, and this inevitably flows into the music and the albums.”

Another injection to the muse of Universal Hall is the reunion old Waterboys pal Steve Wickham. Wickham is a mesmerising Irish fiddle player who makes anything dance that comes into his vicinity. In the middle of the eighties Scott came across the Dublin based player and the hybrid fusion of Scott’s big music and Wickham’s folk rock fiddle brought to flower one of the most powerful live shows the world has ever seen. I still use their Ulster Hall, Belfast gig in April 1986 as a yard stick to all good rock shows and nothing has ever come close. Sadly the band took too long playing at their music and before they released their next album the sound had dropped a little too far off the Irish traditional balance scale and Fisherman’s Blues just never reached the heights it could have.

I told Scott that when I watch him perform now I get the impression of a man at peace with where his art has taken him. he could have been a megastar but decided to get off the beaten track and head west to Galway. He seems to be very content at the level of his success. The songs seem more important than the riches, fame or house in Malibu. Am I right? His answer is characteristically philosophical, “Whether I 'could have been a megastar' is unknown. As CS Lewis liked to say 'We are never told what might have happened'. Nor am I interested in what might have happened! I've always followed my heart, guts and fascinations and I have learned to surrender to the places - both physical and inspirational - to which they take me. Yes, the songs and creativity are more important than any riches that could result, but I have nothing against houses in Malibu. Malibu is a very fine place indeed.”

In November 2000 I was back in the Ulster Hall trying to revisit those old feelings of 1986 and though enjoyable it was getting nowhere near and then for the encores out stepped Steve Wickham and the crowd went wild. The old magic bow weaved again and suddenly we were transported to those enchanting places. How did they get back together? Scott tells the story, “Steve and I are great friends and even when we weren't working professionally together we were always in touch. In 1999 Steve invited me to Sligo, where he lives in the west of Ireland, to do a show. So I went over and we did a two-man concert together. It was a great success and I knew we had a lot of music still to make together. Then I asked him to guest with us at our shows in Dublin and Belfast in 2000. It went so well I asked him to rejoin the band, and, to my great pleasure and delight, he is back and playing the greatest rock fiddling ever!”

It is hard to argue with that but what then does he add to Scott’s muse well over a decade later? “Steve gives the music wings, a sense of the elemental, a sweetness, a gateway to the unseen.” Does the writing change with the fiddle on stand by? “Yes, indeed. 'Peace of Iona' was a hypnotic chant until Steve's fiddle entered the picture and turned it into a sonic evocation of the island and the elements.” Last Wickham question has to be about how he feels with the spiritual concentration of the songs and recording in a spiritual community. Scott is loathe to speak for his friend, suffice to say, “Well, I can't answer that for him, though we had a great time together in Findhorn making 'Universal Hall'. He has visited many times.”

Universal Hall is an album full of spiritual reflection, meditation and at times almost corporate worship. Many of the songs have only a few lines that become almost like Taize prayer chants. I wondered what had inspired him to the economy of words. “I'm familiar with Taize chants because they are very popular in Findhorn, and I also work with affirmations, so I'm used to the idea that a few short lines of words, carefully chosen and repeated aloud or inwardly, can have a powerful inspirational effect. When my songs started coming in this minimal form, with only 2 or 3 lines, the challenge was to allow them to be so, and not to be tempted to flesh them out into a 'normal' structure. I resisted the temptation!”

Finally, I was curious to know if the spiritual belief that ignites these songs gives an extra expectation to what Scott hoped that they might achieve. Again his answer is intriguing showing so clearly that we should never differentiate between the so called sacred and secular. If it is important enough top provoke songs it all should have similar hope of impact. “My hope is the same whatever kind of song I'm writing - that I may express myself and my inspiration authentically, in a way that thrills me and takes my writing somewhere it has never reached before, and that the listener will have every chance to 'get it' and receive the same inspiration I did when writing.” And what would he hope we might take away from Universal Hall? “A feeling of love inside.”

Festival of Faith and Music 2005 - A Personal Response

There are moments when the space blows up to a size that is way beyond our normal daily allowance. In that space the energy of mind and heart and soul is quickened and vocabulary falls effortlessly onto the pages of dreams and discernment. It might be the place where songs and poems are caught, where the plots of novels are conjured and where the artist sees colours shimmy and shake into beauty. In the space life takes a perspective that transcends and divine grace drenches. Life gets a little more sorted, redemption visits and births new convictions.

The Festival Of Faith and Music at Calvin College, Grand Rapids, Michigan has become such a sabbatical for me. As I moved between seminar, concert, creative worship and conversation I found myself in a community whose lungs had been filled with a short sharp burst of oxygen that might just keep me spiritual alive for months to come. Calvin’s Head of Student Activities Ken Heffner has created something that is too precious to have been planned. In 2003 some of us came. When we reconvened in 2005 we were embraced by simply being back in each other’s presence and then we got to add new touches of brother and sisters, many hitherto unknown to us. For thirty six hours we shared something above us, underneath us and surrounding us and we basked in the sacred space.

For me there were a few moments of disbelieving that the ridiculous grace that follows my life should be lavishly poured out again. I got to hang out with the best man at my wedding David Dark. In a bizarre beyond coincidence David and I met in Ireland in 1992 and in a story too long to trace here we find ourselves living a long distance apart in Belfast and Nashville but somehow living this twin tracked connection where we both just released our second books and I was key note speaker at the first festival and David at this one. That his wife Sarah Masen did her first gig in many months and simply reached beyond her phenomenal potential with a performance that stole the weekend.

The Calvin College Theatre is perfect for music. The big stage, the crystal clear sound and an audience of hundreds of students who have a unique discernment in quality music maybe as a result of Hefner’s shaping in the great artists he brings into this College based upon the theology of Dutch Reformed thinker Kuyper; culturally engaging Calvinism. This weekend saw Brother Danielson build on his zany concert in 2003. Dressing himself inside a tree he threw out all kinds of high pitched songs of practical Christian challenge leaving many wondering like Bob Dylan, “Something is happening but you don’t know what it is, do you Mr Jones.”

His pal Sufjan Stevens is the current critical success garnering entries in many of the world’s most prestigious magazine’s albums of 2004. At the festival, his entire band dressed in angels wings (well he did follow Brother Danielson!), he played the most beautiful songs, subtle and sophisticated in their delivery from a band that traded so many instruments it was impossible to keep up. Danielson and Steven’s other co-conspirator Half Handed Cloud gave an equally quirky flavour to Saturday night. Sort of stuck inside one of Larry Norman’s humourous songs he lets toy mechanical sheep off across the stage as he sings about The Lamb Of God. It is full on Biblical content played more regularly far from Christian ghettos.

David Bazan, from Pedro the Lion and a new incarnation The Headphones, was a surprise addition to the Saturday night where he did his now traditional question and answer sessions between songs. His songs have Flannery O’Connor’s gloom and doom but somehow redemption lurks. He covered Randy Newman’s politically provocative Political Science which perfectly showcases his humour, cynicism and prophetic punch. Moments later he is ranting against Blockbuster Video censorship and singing the hymn Come Thou Fount as response to a question about which songs touch him the most.

Another of those “I don’t belief this is happening” moments was when Pierce Pettis approached me after my seminar and asked if he could run a song past me. “Yes, I reckon that would be ok!” Pierce had written a song about Belfast called Donegal Road and wanted a cultural editor so that he wouldn’t look like a dumb yank! Far from it the song which he added to his brilliant solo set was so spot on to the Irish contradictions where the stranger is loved like nowhere else yet we hold up our own at knife point. God Believes In You is always a song and truth worth hearing and again was a highlight of Pierce’s set.

Both Pierce and Saturday night headliner Bill Mallonee asked for prayer for their Pope who had passed away in the afternoon. Bill, now without his Vigilantes Of Love did the best solo set I remember him do, showcasing songs from his new album Friendly Fire. Highlight was his classic Resplendent which deals with natural disaster and humanity’s culpability in the plot.

But it wasn’t the gigs that made the biggest impression. Just hanging out, going out for food and watering at the end of the two days, moving and breathing in an air filled with imagination and spiritual intention makes this a unique place. I need to save for 2007.

The Frames - Glen Hansard Soul Surmise Interview

For some time I have been waxing lyrical about the magnificence of The Frames live. On the eve of their live album SET LIST I got a chance to email Glen Hansard a few questions as he was holed up in Chicago putting down tracks for the next studio album. He waited until he got back to Dublin but he took the time to tease out my questions of art and faith as they apply to this man who have been following closely since I was first blown away by The Frames in London way back in 1991.

Claire Leddbetter gave the word on the release to the fan base this week:

“it is finally hitting a store near you in ireland on may 16th. the tracklist is: revelate, star star, god bless mom, pavement tune, stars are underground, lay me down, rent day blues, what happens when the heart just stops, perfect opening line, santa maria, fitzcarraldo, your face and the blood. we've left the bit in in the middle of fitcarraldo where the amp blew up and caught fire and a story about a dog.....part from that, its full-on music/crowd/music/crowd/music etc from start to finish and is a very nice addition to one's collection :0) the version of your face is particularly fine i think.....3mv in england will be making the record available in stores in the uk from the 26th may. little big in australia will be making the record available in stores as soon as humanly possible too...now - in america - i dont know yet what we're doing with the record. hopefully it will be available in stores too at some point soon, or on amazon sooner, but im sure we'll bring over a suitcase to sell at the shows in june for those that cant wait. i beleive that konkurrent in the benelux countries will be taking some set lists too to get out in their territories.”

See Glen solo at Killyleagh Castle on may 25th with Van Morrison, Juliet Turner, Brian Houston and Juliet Turner!

So here is the interview…

STOCKI: How does it feel that after 13 years The Frames have finally got some of the recognition that you deserved all along?

GLEN: We feel that were doing what we set out to do. It was never a case for us of getting recognition from media… us, our audience and our peers have always been our concern. The media has never been a particular friend or foe, it’s just never been our goal to be its favourite band. We’ve done what’s been asked of us in regard to press, and no more. I think its a dangerous place to put yourself…at the mercy of something so insecure…it seems to me that popular culture has always been led by those who care least for it, not those who follow it's lead… if it truly matters nothing to you, then you may just end up its darling one day, although if you were truthful you won’t notice it either way.

STOCKI: It seems that since I first saw you in the Subterranean, London in 91 that you have been on the cusp but never dropped over the edge. How have you found the stamina to not say SOD IT and walk away?

GLEN: Because walking away has never been an option. I left school at 14, I’m not qualified to do much else. Which puts me in a strong position…do this well or give up…the latter is not a very promising prospect. I never gave myself that choice. Whether on a stage or on a street…music is what I do.

STOCKI: The Dublin scene is so strong at the moment with Damien Rice, Gemma Hayes, David Kitt etc. This is a new generation but you seem more part of it than you did of the old regime so to speak. Do you feel it is a good time for the Irish scene?

GLEN: Yes I think there is a very healthy atmosphere in Dublin, I think a large part of it is to do with the confidence of the Irish nation rising…people are no longer afraid to like bands that come from there own town. When The Frames started back in 1990 you had to get some nod from foreign press in order for people at home to pay any attention…we were ruled by the English music press…which is purely based on the cult of personality and not the tunes, fashion and rock ‘n roll stories are its agenda. I don’t regard it, and I’ve never bought it. Dublin is thriving because there is so much great music being made here. It seems that every decade, real quality emerges.

STOCKI: For The Birds is a little more laid back and ambient than most of what you do. What as the reason for that? Was it the Kittsers et al influencing the sound?

GLEN: No, it was just time to make a record of what was coming out…the natural stuff. For so long we'd been told by the industry that fast means big, loud means lots, slow means nothing and i was just so sick of that logic. The songs I was writing were slow…so that’s what we did. We were happy to make a record that might show our natural selves even though we might be ignored for it...it's not like we were applauded for our other records anyway… it just didn’t matter as long as we could stand by it and be proud..

STOCKI: What happens next? Is there a temptation to do For The Birds Part 2 to keep the new fan base?

GLEN: Records are just what they turn out to be. There’s no radical game plan…that’s for the world domination bands… I’m just mapping a life with songs. We don’t stand around under lit tables and plan our fan base strategies…forget that…if those who like The Frames like the record then great. I won’t try to con anyone that we’re the horse to watch. How base would that be!?

STOCKI: There must be songs sitting ready. What stage is the follow up at?

GLEN: We’ve just finished the basic tracks in Chicago, were happy with the work we’ve done and we will do some more work on it in the coming weeks and mix it sometime soon after that. If the basic emotion of the songs translate well…then we’ve done our record justice.

STOCKI: What kind of sound can we expect?

It's a collection of songs and so it has no set thread other than we made them. There are elements of our last two records in there and some new elements too. The song in its basic form is often the most pure…then we throw the bells and whistles on and sometimes it looks ridiculous… other times a new beauty emerges.. it’s alchemy it’s fun and at best it's art.

STOCKI: Are there more of those sad love songs about waking up in the ex's garden?

GLEN: Yeah! Lots more..

STOCKI: Are there any themes taking shape?

GLEN: I suppose a sense of well f*** it we’re lost in the middle of this life and each day brings a new possibility for adventure and safety. It’s more about enjoying the chaos now and not moaning about it anymore…what’s the point…the whole thing is so much bigger than us…so lets just enjoy the time we have here.. with its questions and doubts and abstractions and joy. The human condition is the basis. Connection with other humans is what we crave…and sharing the light keeps us alive…very Christian eh?

STOCKI: Thematically where do the ideas come from?

GLEN: From a life of map making and song. Everything’s an influence… everything.

STOCKI: How will losing David Odlum affect the next record?

GLEN: It won’t. He's still my friend…we still make music together. He's following his own north star and it's leading him toward a life of engineering and producing and there's nothing in the world that justifies keeping a person from their dreams. With regard to a noticeable sonic difference? Well I’m sure his presence will be missed…but not his spirit.

STOCKI: The live show is simply astounding. Do you prefer the stage or the studio?

GLEN: The studio and the stage are such different environments. For the longest time I thought that to recreate the live energy on tape was the desired effect...but through tearful endeavour I’ve realised it's a different process…one which we are still learning about…playing live is definitely where we are comfortable…the energy is clear and it flows in one direction…away from the band.. and the energy that returns is then converted and used instantly…it’s a very random animal the live show.

STOCKI: Covers of Tim Buckley and Van Morrison sit side by side with the Pixies in live shows. Would you call the things you listen to eclectic?

GLEN: Yeah growing up as a busker it’s all about songs and not styles.. a good song crosses the street and unlocks the passer by…to achieve a response no matter how small.. these people write great songs and I thank them for many a meal I’ve eaten through singing their tunes. Thanks from all the buskers!

STOCKI: You specifically mention Morrison as an influence to not just yourselves but to David Gray et al. For you is there an Irish kinship there?

GLEN: I think it’s the troubadour thing…the power of a man with a guitar and something to sing about. I don’t think it's particular to Ireland…it's the old way.. the poets take on the world around them.. a solitary voice that sings of a territory that’s unseen…that’s inner and abstract and emotional.. and somehow comments on us all. There’s great medicine in ramblings of a lost soul…no patronising tone to the words. I love Van Morrison because he always seems to be searching.. never found…I don’t know about his personal life but in his music he gives the listener only a question…the answer lies elsewhere…to be attained someday.

STOCKI: There is also a depth of religious imagery to what you and Morrison do. East Belfast and Dublin city have not been great ads for the Jesus of the Protestant and Catholic faiths of those respective places. Yet the message both of you have is a positive spiritual vibe. Why do you think that is?

GLEN: I’m not really sure where that comes from. My earliest memories of singing was being bathed in the sink by my mother with the suitcase record player on the sideboard, playing Leonard Cohen and Simon and Garfunkel records. She taught me the words to Bird on the Wire and the Sound of Silence, and as a very young child I just learned the sounds of the words. I was too young to know what they meant, never mind their deeper meanings. As I grew up those songs got deeper and revealed more to me. We weren’t a church going family, although my mother was and is very catholic. Apart from a 5 year falling out with God in the 90's she has always been a very strong believer. She always said, “we don’t have to go to church to talk to God”… and she viewed the church as a place of gossiping and comparisons. The whole wearing the Sunday best and showing up with the rest of the town for the weekly sermon just wasn’t high on her list of priorities. She stayed at home and cleaned on Sunday mornings with the record player so loud that she could hear it clearly over the Hoover…the rising dust caught in the sunlight were the angels ascended.

STOCKI: At a recent Belfast gig, you mentioned Jesus whipping the money changers out of the temple. Do you read a lot of stuff about him?

GLEN: I find the Bible fairly tough going as a book, but I love the imagery. It’s full of great tragedy and redemption, the fire and brimstone nature of it definitely appeals to me, although I suppose that the whole style of writing at the time was very poetic and decorative so when it says, “Jesus healed the blind, it may mean that he gave the unsee-ers back their faith…therefore restoring the vision…therefore healing the blind… and if you apply this method of thinking to every aspect of the bible and it's miracle stories then it becomes much easier to believe he really was as powerful as the book describes…because these surely were miracles, real miracles. The power and vision of a man to change the minds of people, to change laws to overthrow powers that be…it took the will and strength of a true prophet…and the book of Luke was the place were this became most clear to me. The idea of an angry Christ struck a deep chord in me…because the floating yoda we see so often in imagery never convinced me. I think he must have been a very strong and powerful man to have had such a lasting impact on the Christian world…and the whole world in fact… a great revolutionary and a deeply spiritual leader.

STOCKI: Finally, how do you go about "making your life make sense and make amends?"

GLEN: I suppose I try to remain open to the signs and to the moment I’m in. I really believe in the idea that if we are open, the mystery and the wonder are revealed to us through everything we encounter…the magic is in the moment. Although that line was born out of a sense that I wasn't in control of my own destiny anymore and I and we The Frames needed to get clear of the place we were, and to strike out on our own path and see where it brought us. So the amends we made came partly through making For The Birds and setting up our own record label and being our own bosses. The personal amends never stop…that’s the work of the everyday.

All Star United - The Soul Surmise Interview

(This interview was done before All Star United released Revolution in 2002)

THERE SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN SOME CHANGES IN THE TIME BETWEEN ALBUMS?
Yes, a lot can change in a couple of years. You get a little older, hopefully a little wiser, and you meet new people (wife Peggy).

HOW HAS A NEW BAND CHANGED THE SOUND?
I'm not exactly sure what the ASU sound is. The band has been an amazing outlet for my rock and roll outpourings, and I've been fortunate enough to record with a number of my friends over the years. It's exciting to witness a group of guys transform an idea in my head, into a listenable recorded product. Well, sometimes it's listenable. I try to write songs that are short and to the point, with a singable hook, and with the occasional touch of wit. Add my odd voice, my cast of rock and roll pals, and there you have it. Maybe we do have a sound? Not to mention, I'm drawn to a sort of low-fi production style. Less is more. Most of the new record was done in only a few takes.

ARE YOU STILL WRITING WITH DOUG MCKELVEY AND/OR ARE THERE ANY OTHER CO WRITES?
This is a very personal project for me. I spent a lot of time cratfing songs for this record and they come straight from my heart. There is a co-write with my friend Doug, my friend Chris Smith, and others with Richard Evenlind.

CHANGE IS A THEME THIS TIME. IS THAT IN THE LIGHT OF THE BAND CHANGES OR SUB CONSCIOUS OR COINCIDENCE?
That's a good question. I guess I got a little "John Lennonesque" lyrically on this album. There are several songs that deal with the idea of change. With all that's going on in the world, there must have been some sort of sub conscious element within me craving a revolution. I personally rest in the fact that God has the ability to take our problems and change them into something perfect.

COULD YOU TALK US THROUGH THE INSPIRATION OF A FEW OF THE SONGS?
The track "Kings And Queens" is a song that touches on the idea that we are all future royalty waiting to receive our Heavenly crowns. Life can be tough sometimes. However, we have the choice in life to exist in emptiness or accept the invitation to one day sit at the side of majesty. I love this imagery. "Sweet Jesus" is a track that I wrote in a time of searching. I remember sitting on my roof, with guitar in hand, overlooking downtown Nashville. The melody and chords just started to come. Sometimes I fall into a comfort zone where I put God on the "back burner". It's easy to take your salvation for granted when everything is going smoothly. This song is an actuall moment of getting reaquainted with an old friend. "Global Breakdown" was written on 9/11/01 watching CNN in my underwear. Not Doug's part of course.

HOW DO YOU WRITE? IS THERE A THEME FIRST? A LINE FIRST? A TUNE?
I tend to come up with the tune first. Then I stumble across a motorway billboard that gives me the title. And as the engineer is setting up the microphone I'm usually scribbling down the rest of the words.

BRIT POP WAS AN INFLUENCE ON THE FIRST TWO ALBUMS. WHAT WAS THE SOUNDTRACK TO THE WRITING OF REVOLUTION?
Not many people know that I have a bizarre day gig writing country songs for BMG Nashville music publishing. So----------Johnny Cash.

YOU ALWAYS SEEM A BIT QUIRKY AND EDGY TO FIT EASILY INTO THE CCM SCENE. HAS THAT BEEN A STRUGGLE?
I find it quite exciting to be involved in an industry that needs to be shaken up a little bit. Humans have divine creativity flowing through their veins. Do not be afraid to create. The rest will happen as it should. I've seen a ton of young CCMers come and go. Many new bands get bummed out and jaded when their debuts don't go triple platinum. It can be a struggle, but you have to ask youself why you do it.

WHO IN CCM DO YOU FEEL THE CLOSEST AFFINITY TO?
We hang out with the Supertones a lot (about an hour ago). But we don't like each other that much.

ANYONE ELSE IN THE GENERAL MARKET?
I don't know, I have an amazing capacity to leave entire cd collections in rental cars. However, I have hung on to the new Weezer, Jimmy Eat World, Pete Yorn, and Stereophonics. It's funny though. I don't listen to a lot of music when I'm writing.

DO YOU FEEL PRESSURE ON YOUR SUBJECT MATTER OR IMAGE FROM THE CHRISTIAN MARKETPLACE?
I have often said that writng songs within the Christian box is the most challenging song writing gig on the planet. There are huge limitations on subject matter, and what the perceived audience will actually buy. However, I find this challenge exciting. It really is a thrill to devise new and creative ways to talk about your faith with metephor and imagery.

YOU HAVE LAWYS BEEN THE KINGS OF HUMOUR, IRONY AND SATIRE. NOT A VERY AMERICAN THING?
Ironic isn't it.

SIGNING TO FURIOUS? THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT YOU AND BRITAIN. WHAT IS IT?
What can you say about the Brits? I mean, come on! Without you, I might be writing this in Portuguese. God save the Queen, I mean it man.

Joseph Arthur - Exhausted by his own Imagination

I left Joseph Arthur’s small and intimate gig at The Errigle Inn, in Belfast, speechlessly quiet in my half yard of spiritual solitude. And it wasn’t the gig, though we’ll get to that. After the gig as this lanky, arty and obviously laid big dude just sat down at a table alone, someone asked about product. Not for Joseph the table at the back strategy. No he got up almost hesitantly and opened a bag full of EPs, some on CD but some on 12” vinyl with individually sketchings by the man himself. I stood in line, two from the front and one from the back, and when it came my turn I asked my prepared question.

During the gig I could not help, as a Presbyterian minister, be aware of the copious amounts of spiritual references. When he asked what people do for fun in Belfast and one, inebriated to the point of loud wag, shouted ‘Church’ and everyone laughed. Joseph said that after his 10 mile 4am run he always went to Mass. When asked what Americans do for fun he replied that he just sat in front of the TV and smoked pot. There seemed to me to be a great deal of irony in both statements and so my question stuttered out, “So, does the spiritual depth of your lyrics come from going to Mass or smoking pot in front of the TV?”

Arthur’s laid back eyes gained a sparkle and we began to converse about faith. He chatted excitedly about how it is his subconscious coming out and how it is his search and struggle and holding on to faith when the world suggests giving it up. I shared the frustrations of a preacher, the lines of whose picture are always too confining to really get to the soul of the human experience like a singer can; like he had just done. Immediately he proved my point, had the house sound switched off, lifted his guitar and sang to the thirty of us who remained a new song called Redemption’s Son that was simply breathtaking. It was all about Jesus being the only one who really knew him and the struggles of relationships of father and son. It was a prayer for the angel of light to shine upon us. And of course it was far from theological watertight, that is not his trade or his concern but it opened spiritual pores in the soul’s of that crowd that Billy Graham could never do. It was like he threw out these melodic seeds that fell, where the fell only God knows, but they fell and they were potent because as he threw them they were landing in the depth of the man who sang in the same sense as the ones who listened. Not the arrogant aural brutality that closes the heart but the humble, honest, vulnerable sharing of the search that smashed down the thickest doors in the gentlest way.

And ooh yes, the gig. Well I arrived not sure what to expect. I loved ‘In the Sun’ the most famous of his songs, covered by Peter Gabriel and the single off his last album Come To Where I’m From. Yet I thought that sometimes it was over cluttered and too harsh for my forty year old ears. When Arthur walked out and started singing I was blown away. The voice, the melody, the articulate poetry of the songs and the depth of the questions. Every few songs he’d use his foot pedal echoing effects to conjure rhythms and guitar layerings that made it sound big, big, big and though there were moments when he got so into his art that this became just a little over self indulgent, it made the gig flow up and down and kept the whole thing fascinating. Though a more than original artist there are the parts in Arthur’s influences, that add up to way beyond their sum. The poetry of a Cohen, the harmonica of a Dylan, the clutter and clang of a Waits, a bit of melancholy trip hop and the angst of a Cobain. Yet, that angst never goes the nihilistic way of Cobain because it is always wrapped in the flickers of light that the search always seemed to let seep in. God, and Jesus seems His incarnation in these songs, is a given but who and how and where are the search at hand. There are strongest hint of resurrection and eternity and the cross as a main mover in these things is never far away.

The bottom line for Arthur is a world of dreams that clashes too often with the reality of the day and his prayer is for understanding and a way through. He sings, “Will you help me to understand/'Cause I been caught in between all I wish for and all I need.” It is the most satisfying of journeys to share. He sings elsewhere “I’m exhausted by imagination” and I believe him. But imagination is the most vital ingredient in lives searching for the betterment of self and mankind and so I’ll milk this man’s creativity dry, if he doesn’t mind.

Dan Wheeler & Cathy Burton - Put the Kettle on ... Here come the Prophets

It was a wonderful moment. I was hosting a Songwriter Circle at The Greenbelt Arts Festival and two of my guests were Cathy Burton and Dan Wheeler and I was trying to provoke in them a response to the purpose of their songs. Did they write in order to change things? What impact did they think their songs could make? Knowing Dan and Cathy’s gentle modesty and unpretentious demeanours I should have not been too taken aback by their quiet shrug of shoulders and “I don’t know…hopefully!” responses. I was though. So I turned to my non musical guest, the ecologist and activist, Alistair McIntosh and asked him whether he thought music could change things and as his wonderful want – he went off on one.

I had noticed him jot down some notes during the songs Cathy and Dan had been singing. He reached for these notes and quoted back to the performers their lyrics and concluded “there is a profound prophetic nature to your work. You are bringing together the integration of the head, the heart and the hand in the tradition of Celtic Spirituality and you are in the line of the bards in the powerful way that you can transform society.” I looked across at my humble songwriters and their mouths were wide open and their eyes were popping out of their heads!

Burton and Wheeler have quite a pedigree when it comes to their art. Both are songwriting partners of number 1 song writers. Wheeler has been writing with Paul Field who sent Cliff Richard to number 1 with Millenium Prayer and Cathy could actually be described as a songwriter-in –law of Britain’s biggest thing in 2005 James Blunt as both have co-written with Ricky Ross who of course himself knocked Madonna off the top of the album charts in 1989 with his band Deacon Blue.

How does that come about? Dan’s diffidence raises its’ head again, “Paul and I met on a recording session and, knowing his track record as a songwriter, I nervously handed him some demos on the second day. He must have taken pity on me or decided I wasn’t a total write-off because we later fixed-up a writing day together and it worked out really well.” It has worked so well that maybe the best song on Field’s new album is one of the songs written during that session, Bringing It Round Again. “The thought behind the song is finding something unchanging in all the changes.” Of course, those who know where Wheeler is coming from will know that the love is God’s love. Wheeler’s raison d’etre could be seen as a search for belonging, meaning and healing and the answer is always love whether that is God’s love or the many ways that God allows us to experience and give love in our every day living. You always feel that you are getting the joys and struggles of a real flesh and blood life.

What we have is an authentic journey of life. These are the thoughts of a man with the compass of faith in his hand, trying to read it and then honestly share it to help all of us read our own compasses better. It is a sharing of authenticity and that is such an important contribution inside and outside of Church life. And yet when I asked him what he hoped people would take away from his album Long Road Round he answers, “Ideally I’d want people to put the kettle on and take another listen!”

That title track was co-written with Burton who when asked how she got hooked up with Ricky Ross we find ourselves back at the very Songwriter Circle at Greenbelt that started the piece. “We met at Greenbelt on The Rising and I approached him. We met in London for a writing day.” What did he bring to the table? “He brought a mature simplicity to the songs I’d sent him. I think I was busy busy, busy with lyrics. He seemed to just bring in a purer version of what I was trying to do.”

Is there a danger that Cathy feels under pressure to preach in that “purer version” of what she’s trying to do? “I do feel a pressure. I feel that being in the public eye I need to be saying more than I do. I'm very aware of it. So I'm trying to grow in my writing and be more up front with the message of Jesus without scaring people of with brush that tars us of being accused of doing "religious music". I think the Jesus stuff of Grace, Forgiveness and Love is what I'm thinking of whilst writing for this next album. I hope I get there!”

So do we. I ask about McIntosh’s comments and that prophetic role. She’s done some thinking in the interim. “Well I've thought about it often. I do think music that is written out of our being can be prophetic. I think it can communicate God in a way that nothing else can. I just think it's kind of embarrassing and big headed to go around focusing on it. So I try not to think about it for fear of loosing any gift that God has potentially given me in thinking I'm some kind of big important prophet.”

Of course! Humble but purpose driven. It’s why we love these two south coast singers. We need them. The powerful of the song should never be underestimated.